I'd take it one step further, even. You know how video games often have music written specially for them that can go on to outlive the games themselves? I'm thinking of the soundtrack to games like Pokémon, Legend of Zelda, Skyrim, Persona, Nier, Final Fantasy, Minecraft, etc. I often put on music from these games in the background of my room to study or fall asleep to. Why not have music specially written for our environments? I don't see why we can have such a wonderful soundtrack accompanying Jubilife City in Pokémon Daimond and Pearl, but not for our IRL cities!
Love this! I live in south Louisiana, and when my favorite Italian restaurant changed ownership a few years ago, it switched from playing Italian opera to jazz. Great as Louis Armstrong is, he can’t nearly elevate a glass of Chianti like Puccini!
I don't know if this is common in Ireland, but I was once in Dublin in a pub that had -per tradition- no music, and it was by far my favorite one there. Just to be able to actually have a conversation going and also to realize we don't need it.
Maybe in much more quiet cafes we can bring back oldskool jukeboxes :)
I cannot agree more. Sound diarrhea goes with us everywhere. Unfortunately, most people don't notice or mind, because our eyes take the lions share of our attention.
We should mind, though. Thanks for writing about it Alex. Maybe our eyes, reading this, will turn out attention back to our ears and our soundscape, at least for today
as an autistic person, this level of noise often excludes me from spaces i'd otherwise be able to enjoy. a pub with 15 people in it is fine for me, but not when the music is up to 11
Exactly! And how do you explain to people that you wanna leave because the wrong music is playing, and it's a little too hot and you can feel the seams in your clothes... lol
In NYC it seems there's never an environment without music and I find it comforting sometimes when I hear an impromptu performance of "Bye Bye Bye" on the electric violin while my mind is distracted by other things. All the noise just makes me enjoy the silence more; I think in the US especially people aren't comfortable with silence and so times where there isn't just noise that clashes with the environment but no noise at all are pretty rare.
a little different, but i feel similarly to having TV’s in restaurants… we’re all choosing to be together, why does there need to be a tv within eyesight of every seat???
Hi Alex, I'd love for you to get David Deutsch back on to discuss the philosophy of knowledge. He has a lot to say on this subject and a large following based on it. He would also have good criticism on your Emotivism. He talks a lot about emotions just being implicit explanations. It would be a great conversation.
The rapture of rumination on the revelations of the forthcoming fills my fervent focus. I envision a world where the esoteric embellishments of technological transcendence permeate the pedestrian populace. In this realm of radical reimagination, the ubiquitous auditory ambience no longer assaults our senses with standardized sonority. Nay, the melodies that entrance our ears are tailored to the exclusive enchantments of each esteemed individual.
No longer do we suffer the sonic soliloquies spewing from superfluous speakers, imposing their insipid incantations upon the unsuspecting. Instead, the euphonious ecstasies that enrapture our ears are expertly engineered to the exclusive elegance of our own exquisite enchantments. The ephemeral edifices of something akin to Elon's neural eminence have at last breached the barriers of the bourgeois, bestowing upon us the bountiful blessings of bespoke aural appreciation.
Ah, to luxuriate in the lush landscapes of personalized perception, where the world's wondrous weavings are woven to our own wistful whims! No longer must we languish in the limiting limitations of standardized sensations, for the future beckons with a panoply of possibilities tailored to our unique tastes and temperaments. Let us then embrace this era of extraordinary enlightenment, where the mundane melts away, and the magnificent mysteries of the mind reign supreme.
Alex I love to hear you talking philosophy. Recent episodes with Destiny and Folley were especially compelling. You even make religion interesting (Demiurge) and 15 out of 10 for getting at least some sense out of Peterson. I marvel at your ability to say stuff in the moment that I would have wished I had thought of weeks later. But - you knew there'd be a but. I am really saddened to hear you moan about the culture we live in. I cringed hearing you whingeing about architecture last winter. Now you moan about music in restaurants.
It's there because the proprietors have discovered that it gets them enough extra custom to pay for the sound system and the copyright licenses. That's the culture we live in. Also because human perception of sound volume is logarithmic it masks conversation and gives privacy to customers. You're in a tiny minority. Please don't become an old fogey. You're better than this!
I don’t quite understand your objection to Alex’s view. Is there a reason he shouldn’t express his aesthetic sensibilities and preferences? Also, I don’t think that being in the “minority” tends to bother him much :)
I value his work because he retains a fantastic ability to argue sensitively and intelligently, often drawing people out because he treads a fine line between challenge and reflection. Grumbling about what other people enjoy is what plebs like us do. Alex is usually much better than that.
I value those same qualities in his work, but I guess I would say that I don’t find his aesthetic meditations lacking in that regard. In fact, that’s precisely what I appreciate about them.
Would you be more receptive to this kind of thing if he explicitly discussed beauty in a philosophical context first? It’s a very rich field of study. Or do you object to the topic of beauty itself on the whole?
Yep I'm up for hearing him discuss anything and beauty is a rich subject bringing in design, craft, art, and of course nature as well as perception and culture. I think my problem with his comments here on music and previously on (modern) architecture is that he seems to be coming from the presumption that its intrusive and he doesn’t want to be subjected to it involuntarily. He doesn't say the same thing about other aspects of the culture he finds himself living in. I find that a pity, because on everything else I think he takes a much more investigative non-judgemental stance. And I think that's what he does best.
In his cocktail recipe book/conviviality guidebook Everyday Drinking, Kingsley Amis says he’s pretty sure that nobody has ever arrived at a pub and turned away because there’s not enough background music. These places should advertise on maps or wherever whether or not they fill awkward silences. In LA, I asked the woman behind the bar if she could turn down the bar beats from which even the beer garden was no refuge. She replied: ‘are you sure?’
I don't find this to be a trivial complaint at all. In fact, I think it it is a rather important one. In the face of persistent stimulation, particularly noise, thinking becomes saturated by that stimulation. Even if you aren't consciously listening to the music playing, your brain is still processing it. Your body style feels the rhythm and your ears still perceive the sound. If you are reading a book and someone is outside with a jackhammer, you may be able to "tune out" the jackhammer and still read the book, but you are no longer just reading. You are reading AND tuning out the jackhammer because you still hear and perceive it. Of course, any time you read you are tuning out the sound of your own breathing, the creaks in the floorboards above you, or the sound of an overhead fan. Not living in a vacuum, nothing is done completely void of distraction. But when dealing with music, or a jackhammer, it becomes work to get away from those distractions. Music is made to be listened to. That's what music is. Sounds which are organized and listened to for one purpose or another. It's not a secondary noise of life or motion, it was deliberately created. I love music as much as anybody and there are obviously times and places where it significantly enhances the experience of what I'm doing, but in places of engagement or study or focus, let's just give it a rest. Can we just have a beer and talk about something without being bombarded by someone else's subjective feelings about what noises sound good to THEM?
Alex, I think you might have the 'tism as well. Completely agree, I wear NC headphones everywhere. But partly also because I'm a schizo who thinks music can alter your subconscious mind and instill demons in it.
As an İstanbulite, this problem has been pressing on my nerves for some time too. Getting blasted with arabesque, melancholy-inducing music at 10:00 in the morning while trying to get some work done is a horrible experience, one which superstitiously crossing my fingers and repeating “I hope this place doesn’t play music, I hope this place doesn’t play music…” 10x, doesn’t help to mitigate.
Interestingly, there is actually an online platform that lists and promotes places that don’t play music in İstanbul called “Müziksiz Mekanlar” (literally “Places without music”), which is now sadly inactive.
I'd take it one step further, even. You know how video games often have music written specially for them that can go on to outlive the games themselves? I'm thinking of the soundtrack to games like Pokémon, Legend of Zelda, Skyrim, Persona, Nier, Final Fantasy, Minecraft, etc. I often put on music from these games in the background of my room to study or fall asleep to. Why not have music specially written for our environments? I don't see why we can have such a wonderful soundtrack accompanying Jubilife City in Pokémon Daimond and Pearl, but not for our IRL cities!
thats such a good idea!
Love this! I live in south Louisiana, and when my favorite Italian restaurant changed ownership a few years ago, it switched from playing Italian opera to jazz. Great as Louis Armstrong is, he can’t nearly elevate a glass of Chianti like Puccini!
I don't know if this is common in Ireland, but I was once in Dublin in a pub that had -per tradition- no music, and it was by far my favorite one there. Just to be able to actually have a conversation going and also to realize we don't need it.
Maybe in much more quiet cafes we can bring back oldskool jukeboxes :)
I cannot agree more. Sound diarrhea goes with us everywhere. Unfortunately, most people don't notice or mind, because our eyes take the lions share of our attention.
We should mind, though. Thanks for writing about it Alex. Maybe our eyes, reading this, will turn out attention back to our ears and our soundscape, at least for today
as an autistic person, this level of noise often excludes me from spaces i'd otherwise be able to enjoy. a pub with 15 people in it is fine for me, but not when the music is up to 11
Exactly! And how do you explain to people that you wanna leave because the wrong music is playing, and it's a little too hot and you can feel the seams in your clothes... lol
In NYC it seems there's never an environment without music and I find it comforting sometimes when I hear an impromptu performance of "Bye Bye Bye" on the electric violin while my mind is distracted by other things. All the noise just makes me enjoy the silence more; I think in the US especially people aren't comfortable with silence and so times where there isn't just noise that clashes with the environment but no noise at all are pretty rare.
a little different, but i feel similarly to having TV’s in restaurants… we’re all choosing to be together, why does there need to be a tv within eyesight of every seat???
Hi Alex, I'd love for you to get David Deutsch back on to discuss the philosophy of knowledge. He has a lot to say on this subject and a large following based on it. He would also have good criticism on your Emotivism. He talks a lot about emotions just being implicit explanations. It would be a great conversation.
The rapture of rumination on the revelations of the forthcoming fills my fervent focus. I envision a world where the esoteric embellishments of technological transcendence permeate the pedestrian populace. In this realm of radical reimagination, the ubiquitous auditory ambience no longer assaults our senses with standardized sonority. Nay, the melodies that entrance our ears are tailored to the exclusive enchantments of each esteemed individual.
No longer do we suffer the sonic soliloquies spewing from superfluous speakers, imposing their insipid incantations upon the unsuspecting. Instead, the euphonious ecstasies that enrapture our ears are expertly engineered to the exclusive elegance of our own exquisite enchantments. The ephemeral edifices of something akin to Elon's neural eminence have at last breached the barriers of the bourgeois, bestowing upon us the bountiful blessings of bespoke aural appreciation.
Ah, to luxuriate in the lush landscapes of personalized perception, where the world's wondrous weavings are woven to our own wistful whims! No longer must we languish in the limiting limitations of standardized sensations, for the future beckons with a panoply of possibilities tailored to our unique tastes and temperaments. Let us then embrace this era of extraordinary enlightenment, where the mundane melts away, and the magnificent mysteries of the mind reign supreme.
Alex I love to hear you talking philosophy. Recent episodes with Destiny and Folley were especially compelling. You even make religion interesting (Demiurge) and 15 out of 10 for getting at least some sense out of Peterson. I marvel at your ability to say stuff in the moment that I would have wished I had thought of weeks later. But - you knew there'd be a but. I am really saddened to hear you moan about the culture we live in. I cringed hearing you whingeing about architecture last winter. Now you moan about music in restaurants.
It's there because the proprietors have discovered that it gets them enough extra custom to pay for the sound system and the copyright licenses. That's the culture we live in. Also because human perception of sound volume is logarithmic it masks conversation and gives privacy to customers. You're in a tiny minority. Please don't become an old fogey. You're better than this!
I don’t quite understand your objection to Alex’s view. Is there a reason he shouldn’t express his aesthetic sensibilities and preferences? Also, I don’t think that being in the “minority” tends to bother him much :)
I value his work because he retains a fantastic ability to argue sensitively and intelligently, often drawing people out because he treads a fine line between challenge and reflection. Grumbling about what other people enjoy is what plebs like us do. Alex is usually much better than that.
I value those same qualities in his work, but I guess I would say that I don’t find his aesthetic meditations lacking in that regard. In fact, that’s precisely what I appreciate about them.
Would you be more receptive to this kind of thing if he explicitly discussed beauty in a philosophical context first? It’s a very rich field of study. Or do you object to the topic of beauty itself on the whole?
I replied but It came out on the general thread instead of here.
Yep I'm up for hearing him discuss anything and beauty is a rich subject bringing in design, craft, art, and of course nature as well as perception and culture. I think my problem with his comments here on music and previously on (modern) architecture is that he seems to be coming from the presumption that its intrusive and he doesn’t want to be subjected to it involuntarily. He doesn't say the same thing about other aspects of the culture he finds himself living in. I find that a pity, because on everything else I think he takes a much more investigative non-judgemental stance. And I think that's what he does best.
In his cocktail recipe book/conviviality guidebook Everyday Drinking, Kingsley Amis says he’s pretty sure that nobody has ever arrived at a pub and turned away because there’s not enough background music. These places should advertise on maps or wherever whether or not they fill awkward silences. In LA, I asked the woman behind the bar if she could turn down the bar beats from which even the beer garden was no refuge. She replied: ‘are you sure?’
I don't find this to be a trivial complaint at all. In fact, I think it it is a rather important one. In the face of persistent stimulation, particularly noise, thinking becomes saturated by that stimulation. Even if you aren't consciously listening to the music playing, your brain is still processing it. Your body style feels the rhythm and your ears still perceive the sound. If you are reading a book and someone is outside with a jackhammer, you may be able to "tune out" the jackhammer and still read the book, but you are no longer just reading. You are reading AND tuning out the jackhammer because you still hear and perceive it. Of course, any time you read you are tuning out the sound of your own breathing, the creaks in the floorboards above you, or the sound of an overhead fan. Not living in a vacuum, nothing is done completely void of distraction. But when dealing with music, or a jackhammer, it becomes work to get away from those distractions. Music is made to be listened to. That's what music is. Sounds which are organized and listened to for one purpose or another. It's not a secondary noise of life or motion, it was deliberately created. I love music as much as anybody and there are obviously times and places where it significantly enhances the experience of what I'm doing, but in places of engagement or study or focus, let's just give it a rest. Can we just have a beer and talk about something without being bombarded by someone else's subjective feelings about what noises sound good to THEM?
Alex, I think you might have the 'tism as well. Completely agree, I wear NC headphones everywhere. But partly also because I'm a schizo who thinks music can alter your subconscious mind and instill demons in it.
As an İstanbulite, this problem has been pressing on my nerves for some time too. Getting blasted with arabesque, melancholy-inducing music at 10:00 in the morning while trying to get some work done is a horrible experience, one which superstitiously crossing my fingers and repeating “I hope this place doesn’t play music, I hope this place doesn’t play music…” 10x, doesn’t help to mitigate.
Interestingly, there is actually an online platform that lists and promotes places that don’t play music in İstanbul called “Müziksiz Mekanlar” (literally “Places without music”), which is now sadly inactive.
I once was amazed to hear the music of the great English guitarist and composer Allan Holdsworth in an elevator in Istanbul. Then I woke up